I used to listen to Fear Factory and various bands of a similar nature but then grew out of it. Probably the only band I still like from my 'metal phase' is Metallica, for obvious reasons (the main one being that they are one of the greatest bands of all time, they outclass everyone else, and St. Anger was brilliantly raw and excellent proving they've still got life left in them). I like laughing at Slipknot and a few songs by Korn ('Right Now' is definitely worth listening to just for the humourous aggression). Oh, I still like Marilyn Manson as well, but not everything of his, I suppose I'd call myself a 'greatest hits' fan of his. I like the metal/rock fusion he does. Straight metal I can't get into (again, apart from Metallica) or thrash stuff, even though I admire the fact that the drummers are still alive after shows.

You mention Sabbath, they were fucking class. War Pigs is one of the greatest rock songs ever. There I go again being a 'greatest hits' fan, but I don't care. By the way, telling someone to 'fuck off' if they don't like what you listen to isn't a good idea. I have a great respect for pop music even though I hardly ever buy anything that could be classed as pop. James Blunt and Keane are definitely pop, I don't own their albums but I have respect for them, they're actual songwriters. Nirvana's 'Nevermind' is also pop IMO, a rock/pop album. The term 'grunge' only really applies to 'Bleach' in their case. Anyway, I do not give a fuck any more so I'm going to stop typing and go back to listening to the new Radiohead material. Down Is The New Up.

By the way, telling someone to 'fuck off' if they don't like what you listen to isn't a good idea.

Ah, but I didn't. I told them to fuck off if the title didn't grab their attention - and of course, if they aren't paying attention to the article, they wouldn't even see me telling them to fuck off.

Genius, no?

Anyway, I guess it was intended as a satirical jab at the stereotype of your average tatood, pierced, mosh-pitting, goth metal fan. And since I don't have any tatoos, piercings, mosh pits, or gothic architecture, I guess I'm providing myself as the exception of the rule.

Dude, seriously, what's your point with this article? That your musical tastes lack range? That your attitude towards music is stuck in a kind of mid-adolescent Us Vs. Them mentality? Do you really think that pointing out how you're a fan of certain metal and classic rock bands makes you special, or is it supposed to be some kind of joke?

The good news is, that my plan worked. Everyone's ignored my complete lack of knowledge about music and instead focused on the style of the article.

The bad news is, that my plan worked, and everyone's focused on the style of the article.

Dude, seriously, what's your point with this article?

The point was, of course, to list some of the bands I like, and attempt to sway people towards them. But lacking the ability to succinctly descibe music in an enticiny way, I knew that the article would be doomed to fail - so if I had a choice, I might as well make it go down in style - by writing it as a complete load of bollocks. As clearly stated in the opening paragraphs:

"And I'm going to be angry and wordy about it, to ensure that I don't have to worry about sounding like a twat - because it will be guaranteed by the tone of the article."

or is it supposed to be some kind of joke?

Yes!!

Slipknot really do suck, though.

I'll certainly find it interesting to see what the other replies are like, as the day wears on. Call it an experiment in social interaction, if you will :)

Ooo-kay.

Ah Maiden are legends. They pretty much established, defined and continue to shape a genre. Still to this day they remain standard bearers and influence a generation half their age.

At a young age I used to find it amazing that this 'heavy metal' band kept crashing the pop charts but re-evaluating in recent years there isn't really an awful lot about Maiden's music that makes it inaccesible.

Sure it works best at a loud volume but it's not just a constant bludgeon of noise and usually always contains great melody at it's core, plus lyrically have as you kind of pointed out it avoids the love/sex angle so prevelant in mainstream music. Inspiration coming from classic poems to historical events.

As for the others mentioned. I'm pretty sure myself and the Symes saw Avenged Sevenfold. It was them who supported Gn'R in Hammersmith wasn't it? Can't say I was impressed but I'm unfamiliar with them so I was going in blind.

Anthrax. Surely had their day? Yes they we're quite early jumping on the rap/rock cross-over but no matter how much you polish a turd...

As regards Metallica. Seriously have they produced anything of note since the black album? The last 10 years has a cover of 'Whiskey in Jar' to their credit, a ridiculously un-rock and roll court-case with Napster and very very little in the way of new music. Which turned out to be a bit of a blessing in disguise really.

As for pop music, well it has it's place. A good pop song with a good melody usually has the power to lift even the most cynical spirits. The real grounds for complaint lie in the sickening way the ITV/Sharon Osbourne/Simon Cowell dirge factory has flooded the entertainment schedules and pop charts with karoake singers and lacklustre cover versions of decent songs.

Bring back T'Pau, Top of the Pops and The Chart Show.

Oh and Xmas songs.

So baaaaasically, the entire message of this post could have been summed up by just going "Na na na na na na na na METAAAL! Na na na na na na na na MEEETTTAAALLL!!"?

I can't help but think that if I called you a cunt I'd be playing straight into your hands.

Anthrax. Surely had their day? Yes they we're quite early jumping on the rap/rock cross-over but no matter how much you polish a turd...

Does it matter if they've had their day? If some of their stuff is still good, then it's still good.

The real grounds for complaint lie in the sickening way the ITV/Sharon Osbourne/Simon Cowell dirge factory has flooded the entertainment schedules and pop charts with karoake singers and lacklustre cover versions of decent songs.

That's one good reason to hate it, yes.

Oh and Xmas songs.

No thanks!

So baaaaasically, the entire message of this post could have been summed up by just going "Na na na na na na na na METAAAL! Na na na na na na na na MEEETTTAAALLL!!"?

If each 'Na' was a hyperlink, then yes. Whether it would have caused an interesting discussion in the comments is debateable, however.

I can't help but think that if I called you a cunt I'd be playing straight into your hands.

I wouldn't oebject, but I don't think it would add much to the discussion.

>> So baaaaasically, the entire message of this post could have been summed up by just going "Na na na na na na na na METAAAL! Na na na na na na na na MEEETTTAAALLL!!"?

Which is a shame really because whilst that's one element of rock/metal fandom - it's one of the most massive selling genre's in history and has a result has it's own universe of good and bad. Community and creativity. Just as any other does.

Albums such as 'Pyromania' pioneered new ways of recording that have since filtered through to mainstream music or we could discuss the high quality of artwork - of the top of my head Maiden and Marillion have had some glorious covers, heck whilst many find little to love in the record. 'One way ticket' by The Darkness has one of the most beautiful gatefold designs of the decade.

A lot of hard rock/metal is traditionally stereotyped with the beer-swilling, dope-smoking, long haired neanderthals throwing devil horns but in truth had talented individuals and great bands not walked among the number, those driving things forward things would never have got so huge.

Sorry that should read 'that's just one element'

As for Xmas songs, entirely different debate BUT I genuinely wish 'talented' bands from any scene be it indie, rock, hip'hop, Ska, whatever your Poison would show some seasonal spirit. Stop desperately trying to look cool and have a go.

If there is a stigma about Xmas songs it's that we here the same ones trotted out every year. We'll if we had enough new ones this wouldn't be the case (at least not to such an extent). The market of sorts must still be there otherwise companies wouldn't continually re-package Xmas hits albums and department stores wouldn't flood our ears with Slade, Wizzard and Boney M for several weeks a year.

Congratulations to 'The Killers' for actually having a go this year. Albeit 'Great Big Sled' isn't a masterwork but at least they tried. Where's The Artic Monkeys with 'Santa came to Sheffield' or Muse with the 'Reiki Reindeer Revolution' - shame on Girls Aloud for vomiting down our throats with a Tiffany cover when at the very least they could have gone for 'Last Xmas' or 'Rocking around the Xmas Tree'

Kudos to Sufjan Stevens, too, for putting out an *album* of Christmas songs...

I will just take issue with one thing specifically, by the way :

Now this is a proper song, with a proper length - 7+ minutes, unlike the 3 or 4 minute crap that you usually get from pop groups. Good musicians aren't afraid of making something long, you see.

Sorry, but this is bollocks. Why is 7+ minutes necessarily a "better" length for a song? Good musicians, after all, know when not to make something outstay its welcome. "Inna Gadda Da Vida", "Marquee Moon", "Tender", "Only In Dreams" - these are all fantastic songs that are longer than the usual accepted length for a pop song. But there's a certain amount of skill in being able to craft an absolutely perfect and concise two-to-three minute song, as well - you only have to listen to the Buzzcocks - or indeed any number of punk/new wave bands of the time - to see that.

So Jeffrey, you're basically saying that there's good and bad pop songs, and good and bad metal songs. It probably didn't warrant the rant, really... ;)

Sorry, but this is bollocks.

Well, I have been known to exaggerate at times. Certainly what works for some songs won't work for others. If a song works well short then it should be made short, but if making it longer will make it better then people shouldn't be afraid to do so.

So Jeffrey, you're basically saying that there's good and bad pop songs, and good and bad metal songs. It probably didn't warrant the rant, really... ;)

Well, yes. But I really wanted to say that there are some great metal songs, so I did :)

>But there's a certain amount of skill in being able to craft an absolutely perfect and concise two-to-three minute song, as well - you only have to listen to the Buzzcocks - or indeed any number of punk/new wave bands of the time - to see that.

Or, you know, The Beatles (as a band and solo), The Rolling Stones, The Who, Led Zepplin, Neil Young, Talking Heads, Simon and Garfunkel...all of whom made lifelong careers based on radio-friendly 3 minute songs.

Of course, they aren't metal bands, but if you like metal bands you can fuck off.

Seb is correct.

Allthough it's all a bit puzzling because metal songs aren't all 8-minute long epics. Heck the NWOBHM (That's New Wave of British Heavy Metal to those not in the know) borrowed equally from the musicianship of the founding fathers of metal Zeppelin/Sabbath/Deep Purple/Rainbow and one of it's main selling points was the removal of fifteen minute guitar solos instead adopting the shorter hit and run tactic to songmanship championed within punk bands.

Haha, no one who listens to Adema is allowed to make a post like this. Minus fifty points to Gryffindor!

Metal can fuck off. Post classical FTW!

No one who makes a Harry Potter reference while taking the piss out of someone is to be paid attention to.

> Minus fifty points to Gryffindor!

Yeah, like he's in Gryffindor... Only a bastard Slytherin could post like that.

By the way, whoever slagged off Metallica (I can't be frigged to quote you) can die a slow slow death.

Were you high when you wrote this?

Amazingly, no.

Or, you know, The Beatles (as a band and solo), The Rolling Stones, The Who, Led Zepplin, Neil Young, Talking Heads, Simon and Garfunkel...all of whom made lifelong careers based on radio-friendly 3 minute songs.

Actually, quite a few Led Zeppelin songs are 6+ minutes in length - sure, they also wrote a lot of 3 to 4 minute songs. But their popularity is due, in large part, to their massively popular tours, where guitar and drum solos could last for twenty or thirty minutes in length, depending on how inebriated Page and/or Bonham happened to be that night.

Of course, they aren't metal bands, but if you like metal bands you can fuck off.

I agree with this. And I hate how a lot of people seem to classify Led Zeppelin as a metal band, when they are so clearly not, in any way, metal.

Can I be the first person to be a smug cunt and say that each genre of music has its merits , and whatever I personally choose to listen to, dismissing an entire genre of music is a really weird thing to do?

Thanks.

On the subject of length = good, I think we can now all get together and agree that Lynard Skynard's Free Bird is one of the finest achievements of Mankind - I have it on good authority that the band are still playing it now, showing no signs of stopping...

(The counterpoint to epic songs is, of course, the rather enjoyable self-titled album by The Futureheads, in which they show a complete and utter inability to maintain a song for a full 3 minutes. Seriously, only 3 in 17 pass the 3:00 mark and then only by a few seconds)

Which is to say - well done, you have taken time out to develop a personal taste in music. Want a biscuit?

> A slow slow death

Much like Metallica's own career then.

> Zeppelin as a metal band

A Top Ten show on Channel Four a few years ago had the whole debate over whether Zep was metal. It was all based on sales and they eventually shoe-horned Led Zep in after the number one as they had sold more but continually denied they were metal. Which of course is the case but I suppose as they were such an influence and so associated with a certain era of music it's relatively simple to see why the got lumped in.

During the 80's the likes of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were classed as 'Heavy metal' bands by the mass-media but again they don't fit with the current use of the term metal at all.

Actually, quite a few Led Zeppelin songs are 6+ minutes in length - sure, they also wrote a lot of 3 to 4 minute songs. But their popularity is due, in large part, to their massively popular tours, where guitar and drum solos could last for twenty or thirty minutes in length, depending on how inebriated Page and/or Bonham happened to be that night.

A second after I posted that, I thought Zeppelin might have been a stretch, especially since I disqualified mentioning Pink Floyd for the same reason.

A second after that, I knew somebody was going to call me on it.

And a second after THAT I knew it was going to be Austin Ross.

But yes, you understood what I meant (they were CAPABLE of producing radio-friendly 3 minute songs that became massive commercial and critical hits). You just kind of had to rub my nose in where I went wrong.

And I...actually...I kind of liked it...

That means in three seconds, you had me pinned down as a nose-rubbing fiend. You're good, Reed.

Surely individual Zeppelin tracks can't be classed as commercial successes when they didn't realise any singles.

I stant corrected. It appears that was just in the UK.

I think we're all missing the key point here, which is that a grown man standing on a stage singing about wizards is *automatically* pop music.

(I'm serious though - if half of Ozzy Osbourne's entire output isn't supposed to be pop by any reasonable definition of the term, I don't know what is)

This article reminded me of the Uncyclopedia (or was it Encyclopedia Dramatica?) page "Shit band".

Just a small note to add to this.

Good Metal. Dragonforce.

Went to the Astoria last night, so many young kids - all smiling, throwing the 'devil horns' and waving plastic swords and Axe's at each other. Well it keeps 'em off the streets, I suppose.

Avenged Sevenfold? Are you joking?

hey, you really are fucked in the head :), fuck you, wanker

What a great post.

pop music does suck, but people who listen to pop have made it what it is…pop. We cant go be blaming pop music. People who listen to a specific kind of music make it popular. As long as the majority of people out there have compromised tastes and easily compromise for less, for sub standard quality then pop music will be popular.

metal is still pop music. ANYthing with a beat that never leaves 4/4 or 3/4, and uses the exact same chord changes that haven’t been changed since mozart, is pop. The possibilities in regular rhythmic tonality have been exhausted, go listen to herbert Brün or Shoenberg if you really hate pop, but i have a good feeling that you’d vomit all over those guys… thats not even music if you can’t tap your foot and sing along!

You have won my respect. Fuck pop, go Metal. I am a huge metal fan.

And you hate Slipknot? You are fucking awesome!