I haven't seen the video ads yet, but the poster adverts piss me off something good and proper. I really, really hate advertising that has to resort to bashing the competition. If your product is good enough, it can stand on its own, you don't need to take petty potshots at your competitors.

And if a Mac is so much fun, and a PC is so boring and stuffy and business-only, then how come you can barely play any decent games on a Mac?

It's needlessly aggressive marketing, based on the fact that the PC market can never really have a unified comeback to it (since PCs are made by so many different companies), and it's completely in line with the complete twattishness they've displayed over the last decade.

See, having watched them, they're quite amusing, and the casting is indeed spot on. The "restarting" one is very funny, and makes a valid point.

But the "pie chart" one can just fuck right off. Again, if a Mac is so much fun, where are all the developers scrambling to make games for it? Why the suggestion that PCs don't do music, movies, videos or "pod"casts? It's just a LIE.

Well, there *are* games for the Mac, and high-profile ones at that. But games developers like standard platforms; it's exactly why consoles are so popular. The PC won that fight. I think there was a chance for the Mac to become more of a gaming platform; but now you can install Windows on your Mac, there's little point. Just because the Mac isn't really a huge gaming platform, it doesn't make them not fun.

Actually, the message the ads give across to me is secondary to how amusing they are. Some of its messages I agree with; some I don't. You're not an uncreative person just because you use a PC, after all. But the message is secondary to how amusing the ads are, to me.

Another one that's an outright falsehood - the one about PCs crashing all the time. What about this, Apple?

With regards to negative marketing, I've never seen a problem with it. My favourite ever bus advert was a Burger King ad proclaiming "More meat than them" - with the last m being the McDonalds logo! Absolutely hilarious stuff. I can't see anything wrong with pointing out what you think you do better than your competitors.

I never really get involved with platform evangalism these days, mind. I prefer using Macs; but Windows is more suitable for other people with different needs, and the same with Linux. And the same goes for the iPhone, or the iPod, compared to other offerings - it all depends what you want out of a system, and what you care about.

Another one that's an outright falsehood - the one about PCs crashing all the time. What about this, Apple?

To be fair, I've had *far* more problems with the Windows systems I've used than I've ever had with my Mac Mini, which has only crashed once on me.

I'm not saying PCs don't crash more often. I'm saying that Apple are claiming that Macs NEVER crash or fail. Which just isn't true. Alright, when it does happen, it might be rarer, and might be due to hardware defects rather than software failure, but that's not the point.

Apple "Straw Man" Mac.

I think the fact that Macs in general crash *far* less means they can get away with a bit of artistic licence.

Apple "Straw Man" Mac.

I think there is rather more than an element of truth in this. I mean, one of the major points of the ads is "PCs for work, Macs for fun". Well, plenty of creatives use PCs - and I run a business on a Mac! It's a bit of a false idea, I agree.

But like I say - I like the ads because they're funny. Some of the points they make are valid, some aren't. But it's the humour that I really like in them, not the message.

Yeah, I have to say, none of the debate about Macs Good/Evil detracts from your original point, which is that Mitchell and Webb are both (a) very well cast, and (b) very funny, in the ads.

I don't really find them funny because as a lifelong PC user I can't get past the feeling that they're calling ME an idiot for my decision to use one. "Look, I'm an odd-looking geek who thinks that spreadsheets are cool and I've never had sex. I use a PC." McDonalds/Burger King jokes are fine, because the criticism of the product doesn't translate into a criticism of the lifestyle of the consumer like this does. It feels like they're trying to embarrass me into buying a Mac.

This is a wider problem with the psychology of advertising, though, so the blame hardly lands in Apple's lap. I mean, they're definitely funny adverts if you accept the premise that PCs Bad, Macs Good, but because I don't, I can't get past the feeling I'm being insulted.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I do think, though, that they make PC very likeable - possibly more likeable than Mac himself is in the UK ads, actually - which negates the offence somewhat.

But I have a very purist view of comedy. Jeremy Clarkson makes me laugh, even though I disagree with practically every word that comes out his mouth. I always look at comedy in a very abstract way. Which isn't always great, as it gets me into trouble sometimes when I say something that is actually very funny - but also causes offence...

I think it helps if you watch the "restarting" one first, because it's (a) the funniest, and (b) the one that actually makes a fair point. I started out quite kindly disposed towards them after seeing that, and was gradually made more angry. It was the "pie chart" one that really got me, as it was neither funny nor true.

I quite like the pie chart one, really. Yeah, I think the point it's trying to make is definitely the dodgiest of the lot - but the way PC breaks down all the various ways of having fun is very amusing, I think. I especially love Mitchell's delivery of those lines. But yeah - you can easily do photos and editing on your PC, and you can easily do pie charts on the Mac. It really stretches to make a not-very-good point.

Honestly, though, I am really, really bored of platform wars in the real world. Because there's just so many of them - and most of them seem to rely on this idea that one operating system will suit everyone's needs.

And it's utter bollocks.

I use Macs because I love the GUI compared to the alternatives, they do everything I need to do quickly and easily, and I love the form factor of the Mini. On the other hand, if I wanted a gaming platform, or needed to run certain Windows-only software, or wanted a *really* cheap box just for web-browsing, I'd get a PC. And if I did lots of programming, or was a real hardcore free software nerd (which I don't mean negatively - I do think free software is a marvellous thing), then I'd use Linux. That's all very simplistic, of course, but you see what I'm getting at.

Instead, you get people arguing constantly about which system is best. It doesn't work like that. Use the system that does what you need it to, in the way that is right for you. That's why I used RISC OS for years. The same goes for console wars. It's pretty pointless. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. Just as televisions do - but you hardly get the same kind of flamewars over those, do you?

Of course, this may all seem very hypocritical considering I like competitive advertising, and like the Mac ads! But I expect companies to push what they see as positive points for their systems - and yeah, negative ones of others. That's what advertising is. Back in the real world, I wish people would spend their energy on something else.

(That's just a personal rant, BTW - not aimed at anyone here. And I used to get involved in platform wars myself. Not any more, though.)

I've had my Mac (the same one) for three or four years now. I've only had to restart once (it asked me to do so as it was low on system resources) and I've had two out and out crashes.

That amounts to one every 365 days. Which is far from "never," but good enough to justify an ad campaign. I haven't seen all of them, but I also haven't heard them USE the word "never."

Also, it's not that you "can't" play any good games on a Mac, it's that game designers don't concentrate on it. The more popular they get the profitable it'll be for big name corporations to port to (or design for) a Mac. That said you CAN play PC games on a Mac, if that's what you really want. You just need to download an emulator or Virtual PC. It's down to the software companies, not the hardware itself.

What *really* hacks me off about the ads is the far too broad target of "PCs". What the fuck do they *mean* by a "PC"?

What they *really* want to be saying is "Macs are better than Windows machines", but they clearly don't have the balls to do that. So, all PCs are targeted by viruses are they, Apple? NO, they fucking aren't, as anyone with Linux on their PC will tell you - it's *Windows* that gets all the viruses and even then, it only gets so many because its the market leader and virus creators want maximum damage. I'm sure it'd been the same for Apple if they were in Microsoft's position. Honestly, it's all well and good having a dig at Windows, but at least call it by its name and not wage war on something as pathetically broad as the 'PC', because that's just completely ridiculous.

As for the crashing debate, my PC is as solid as a rock and very rarely crashes. Windows XP is a truly excellent operating system, and I can easily live with its flaws, considering just how flexible and stable (at least for me) it is.

I'm coming round the advantages of the Mac as a machine and OSX as an operating system, but Apple themselves continue to bug the fuck out of me with this matey, trendy bollocks that they force down everyone's throat and this pretense that Apple are in some way 'less evil' than Microsoft. It's complete and total balls and completely turns me off the brand, which is a shame.

They should quit with this whole "It's COOL to have an Apple" and fucking well SHOW us why they're better than the alternatives, rather than being smug fucking idiots.

Er, yeah. What Cappsy said.

Also, using the Beatles to demonstrate the music capabilities of the iPhone when you've been embroiled for years in a legal battle with them of the use of the "Apple" name in association with music? Not cool, Jobs. Not cool at all.

And John, you've hit the nail on the head with the whole "different platforms for different things" point. To be honest, I can completely see the benefits of Mac OS, it's great-looking, as is the hardware, and I'm sure it's very good and smooth for a lot of things.

But it is by no means capable of doing everything I want to do with my computer. So it should stop pretending it's the only option. Focus on the things it's good at, but - as James said - don't make the people who don't just want to do those things feel like they're sad uncool fuckos.

Personally, I couldn't give a flying one about the 'trendy' image Apple are trying to promote; a good ad is a good ad. It's amusing to see the buttons they push in some people, though ;)

Well, it's all about how a company presents itself to the public. I mean, HMV still sell the same CDs, but many people (including yourself) were put off the store when they changed their dog to CG...

Also, using the Beatles to demonstrate the music capabilities of the iPhone when you've been embroiled for years in a legal battle with them of the use of the "Apple" name in association with music? Not cool, Jobs. Not cool at all.

Word is that this was done very deliberately, as a hint that that the parties have reached an agreement, and something will be announced soon.

I'll admit that I used to be turned off by the whole image Apple portrayed; the whole "cool" thing. And yeah, it *is* important. In the end I switched because I like OS X and I like the hardware - I was actually put off by the whole trendy thing. It doesn't bug me so much these days, but I can see why it would for some people.

But, you know, of course they're going to say they're the best option. It's an advert! All I can say is that the humour of this set negates any potential offence for me - if it doesn't for you, it doesn't for you.

Interesting blog post about the campaign here.

>What *really* hacks me off about the ads is the far too broad target of "PCs".

I'd just like to point out (not directed at you, Cappsy) that so far we've had negative comments about the campaign both a) attacking the competition directly as a straw man and b) being too broad to define who the competiton is.

Proof enough that there's really no way to do an ad like this that'll end in happiness...in the interim, at least they've done an ad that works.

>Well, it's all about how a company presents itself to the public. I mean, HMV still sell the same CDs, but many people (including yourself) were put off the store when they changed their dog to CG...

Yeah, but the CG dog was shit; it was the damage done to that (same) image that upset me (the real dog is now back, thankfully). These are great ads, regardless of Apple's general image, and in any case, it's not like other companies aren't guilty of smug ad campaigns. I used to get pissed off at Microsoft's 'Where Do You Want To Go Today?' when, as a ME user, I'd be sure of getting absolutely nowhere. XP is better, but I've never accepted the idea that I should pay a large wodge of my cash to upgrade when ME cost a fair bit in the first place. Why reward failure?

Anyway, it's a fantastic campaign, and, as John says, it's poking gentle fun, rather than trying to say MICROSOFT IS SHIT HA HA HA.

> if a Mac is so much fun, where are all the developers scrambling to make games for it?

Waiting for there to be enough Macs to make such a decision financially viable? You can hardly blame Apple for having a small market share - it's not like they prefer it that way! And, well, it's also the reason they have so few viruses. :-)

> I'm not saying PCs don't crash more often. I'm saying that Apple are claiming that Macs NEVER crash or fail.

Oh no they're not - take a calm-down pill! They're IMPLYING it. Just like a paracetemol commercial implies entire and instant relief from pain.

> What they *really* want to be saying is "Macs are better than Windows machines", but they clearly don't have the balls to do that.

For 'balls' read 'legal right'. That's not lack of nerve, it's just being unwilling to libel. Which is not, y'know, entirely unreasonable.

Obviously it's technically nonsense - Macs are PCs too. But it's clear enough.

> They should quit with this whole "It's COOL to have an Apple" and fucking well SHOW us why they're better than the alternatives

Yeah, cos reasoned argument always works best in marketing. How much is muesli and cranberry juice outselling crisps and fizzy drinks by these days? :-)

Okay, snarky comments aside, it's a well-made, funny ad campaign. Hey, deodorant won't make you instantly attractive, either. But it's about brand identity, and that's the ball game these days.

Sell it on the merits? I think this leans comfortably on the merits. But comedy's in exaggeration. John Major wasn't actually grey and pea-obsessed. The details, the real techy stuff, is never going nail casual buyers - and they're the biggest slice of the pie.

What I do think it does, very successfully, is set up the questions. It sends people online, or to read Stuff, to find out the details. To see if the Apple package is worth a look. When PC is still the default position for most households - it's what the kids ask for, what their mates have, and that's got little to do with relative merits and judgement - awareness alone is a big deal.

Still, it's pretty clear that most of us posting aren't exactly target audience for this. Seb, Cappsy, I'm gonna guess you already know the relative merits of the various systems. You go by detailed assessment and then personal taste - the same reason I like...I dunno - Sony DVD players. Or Macs, come to that.

With that in mind, what possible campaign would get you to switch, or up your awareness? You don't need selling to, or to have your awareness heightened. This campaign's wallpaper to you, as would be a new Windows ad series. And fair enough.

Obviously, I like Macs. I think they're made for people. I think, by and large, they're infinitely more user-proof, they don't take much understanding. But that's just me, and I get the merits of the other options. And if Microsoft launched their 'Tiny market share, limited games and trend-happy' anti-Mac campaign, I hope I'd giggle and wander off, nodding occasionally.

Once again, all I can say is : I fucking love Charlie Brooker.

Heh, Charlie Brooker's anti-mac article is surrounded by pro-mac advertising.

That's hardly his fault, though, is it?

Although I imagine the fact makes him chuckle.

I love Charlie Brooker, but I bloody hate that column.

As a Mac user, I'm searching for any signs of truthfulness in the portrayal of either myself, my Mac-owning friends, or my Mac itself - and I can find very little. Sure, you get Mac users who are fucking dicks, but you also get Windows users who are fucking dicks, and Linux users who are fucking dicks. And BeOS users who are fucking dicks, come to that. It reads like a tenth-rate rant by some twat on a forum who's trading on stereotypes that were outdated 10 years ago, and weren't true even then - not something by a respected journalist.

Still, I'll admit that whilst I love the Mac ads (because I find them funny), they too have unfair aspects to them. I suppose the fundamental difference is that i don't think the ads are bile-ridden - they poke fun, rather than just being really unpleasant. If I found the article funnier, I'd be able to excuse that more, though - see my previous comments about that. After all, I find Victor Lewis-Smith making fun of people with ME hilarious, even though it's completely reprehensible...

Oh, and yeah - technology *does* help define who I am. Just as the TV shows I like does, the music I like does, the books I read does, my political views I hold does, and so on. *Everything* defines what a person is - there's no reason to exclude technology.

Word is that this was done very deliberately, as a hint that that the parties have reached an agreement, and something will be announced soon.

Yes.

Actually, completely off the point, but this is all vey interesting:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/
http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/reading_between_the_lines

I can't believe that decision, I really can't.

Apple Corps : Hello, we've registered the trademark Apple and the logo.
Apple Inc : Hello, we've registered the trademark Apple and the logo.
Apple Corps : Wait, you can't do that! We did it first!
Apple Inc : Oh, no, look, it's fine, we just make computers, we've got nothing to do with music!
Apple Corps : Oh, okay then. Well, look, let's agree that you can use the Apple name, but not in association with the distribution of physical media containing music, because that's what we do.
Apple Inc : Okay, it's a deal.

[thirty years later]

Apple Inc : Look at all this stuff we're doing! Music! Music players! Music downloads! Music phones!
Apple Corps : Erm. Hang on a minute. Didn't we have an agreement?
Apple Inc : Oh, yeah. Well, sod that. Let's go to court and sort it out.
Judge : I hereby judge that Apple Inc are the rightful holders of the trademark, but if Apple Corps ask really nicely, they can borrow use of the name that they were the first ones to use.
Apple Corps : WTF? We're the fucking Beatles!!!

I can't say I know enough about the case to comment, although in other areas I'm not too impressed with Apple's legal history. The 'Look & Feel' stuff with Microsoft was ridiculous. You can't copyright the idea of the GUI - especially when you didn't invent it in the first place. I don't use Macs because "APPLE ARE TEH GOOD GUYS AND MICROSOFT ARE TEH EVILS" - I'd just use Linux if that kind of thing was most important to me.

Still, if Apple can use its position to make non-DRM music the norm, that'll be fucking brilliant.

I saw a new poster ad on the Tube this morning. It had David Mitchell and Robert web holding a big card between them, saying "We're closer than you'd think" with both of them smiling. It was lovely.

Oh, it's "We get along better than you'd think" but still, the same idea.

I saw one on a bus shelter. I was in a bus which was driving past it at the time, so didn't get to read the text, but the gist of it is that PC's kneel in brown boxes while Macs stand in white boxes.

I'm sure there's some kind of racist message in that advert.

http://www.lauriemcguinness.com/

'Money' is hilarious.

http://www.vincentchow.net/990/the-wow-started-5-years-ago-mac-os-x#more-990

Fake but funny.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/29/get-a-mac-campaign-makes-quiet-departure-from-overseas

Gone!

I was JUST about to post this here, having just mentioned it on NOTBBC!

The US ones are still running though, with some new ones made just recently.

I still think they worked absolutely fine. And the criticism applied to the UK version - that PC was more lovable than Mac (which I never thought was much of a problem anyway) could easily be applied to the US versions too - so whichever side of the fence you're on on that one, I don't see why the US ones work but the UK ones apparently didn't.

Every campaign runs its course. My understanding is that Mac had a good year and that the ads played their part. Ho-hum.

It's possible, of course, that the lack of availability for the videos was part of the deal with M&W - ads have repeat fees attached, and I suspect it was agreed to take down the online videos after a limited period, or if a new deal wasn't done. Otherwise you can be saddled as the face of Mac forever.

Which is nothing like being the Face of Boe forever. Obviously.

A bit similar though.