There was a great Dwarf moment in this, actually, but I've now totally forgotten it.

Bollocks, me too.

Go on then Seb, justify your sarcasm. Got any examples of that happening before Joss Whedon "did" it? (not that he ever did, really, he just *wanted* to. As did the writers of Lost before they realised they, er, couldn't .) I'm not being deliberately sceptical or claiming that Joss Whedon invented writing or anything, but a bit of evidence wouldn't go amiss ;-)

Also, since I didn't watch it, which of the annoying advert-people was it that drew the short straw?

Did that happen in Angel then (never saw the first episode) ? Must admit, I instantly thought 'Spooks' meself. Bit disappointing because Costello seemed by far the most interesting character and now the team seems a bit small to be the centrepiece of a whole series, but the episode itself was pretty good.

Although when Jack was talking about the "rift" in space-time I *may* have shouted "HELLMOUTH, CALL IT BY ITS NAME."

Actually, I just realised she had to die because they've only got 4 spaces in that car. Vrrroom.

Well, it may not be TV, but there's a pretty damned famous example in the world of film.

Maybe Joss was one of the first people to do it on TV with the Buffy pilot and Angel (although, as has been said, it was Spooks and not the Whedonverse that came to my mind when it happened), but to suggest that it's a staggeringly original idea that only he came up with is somewhat ridiculous...

Of course, the thing in Torchwood wasn't even that similar to either Whedon's examples or Spooks, because the further twist was that the girl (Suzie Costello, James) was actually the baddie, as well.

And anyway, if the episode ripped off anything, it was the Someone Else's Problem... sorry, Perception Field...

> Someone Else's Problem... sorry, Perception Field...

Glad you spotted that, too ;)

It was Men In Black that sprang to mind for me, with the memory wiping, and the new character joining because of a vacancy in the team. And speaking of characters being killed off early in series, Mark Millar wanted to kill off Beast in one of the first few issues of Ultimate X-Men, but he decided against it, so it was left for Brian Bendis to do that instead.

I liked it, mostly, although it definitely seemed to be trying too hard to show off all its "adult" content. It could have been just as good as a 12-certificate instead of a 15. :)

Also, Mr Biffo's written his review:

http://biffovision.blogspot.com/2006/10/things-americans-do-better-than-us-1.html

The Dwarf moment?

..."Sexual magnetism's a virus? Well get me to a hospital, I'm a terminal case!"

Meanwhile, the word "crikey" comes to mind...

Blimey.

"Written by Russell T Davis" is a bit of a stretch though, seeing as he only wrote the first episode.

Its true that whedon wasnt the first, and certainly not automatically true that RTD was copying him, but....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds38295.html

Sort of adds a little credence to the theory!

Also on the Dr Dwarf front, Jack referred to being pregnant in the past- I was waiting for the pool with planets line!

And one minor point, wasnt the second or third episode of angel based on a parasitic organism that met people in clubs and then shagged them?

Im annoyed that I noticed all this, cause I thought torchwood was quite poo.

As far as I remember Whedon never killed of a main star in either Buffy or Angel's pilot. He did of course kill Doyle of half-way through season one of Angel and from that point on it was open season on regular cast members.

Killed OFF, obviously.

Sorry. I'm a twat.

Whedon did originally want to put Jesse (anyone remember Jesse? Yes? No?) in the Buffy opening credits so that it was a shock when he died, but he couldn't justify the expenditure of making two sets of credits for one 12-episode run. Later, when he could afford such extravagances, he put Tara in the opening just before he killed her, partially as a "thank-you" and partially to make everyone think she was about to join the regular cast.

Doyle in Angel was one example where the truth and the official story are a little more blurred, since the guy who played Doyle was, it's often claimed, fired for repeatedly turning up drunk/stoned/etc and generally being unprofessional, though the official word is that Doyle's death was always planned.

I've only watched the first ep so far (will watch the second tonight) but I thought it was very promising. Far better than the 'first' episode of Doctor Who.

As for similarities with other stuff; yeah. Men in Black for me. It would have been more interesting if they'd killed off the copper after she'd served her purpose of introducing the regulars.

The reference to Jack's death was interesting; although having a protagonist who can't die puts a bit of a dampner on things.

> The reference to Jack's death was interesting; although having a protagonist who can't die puts a bit of a dampner on things.

I don't think this will last. Either that or an alternative way to kill him is sure to arise.

Yes, I agree. He won't stay invincible for long, I'm sure.

The hand in the jar may have some involvement with that.

Or it could have just been bait placed there to make me think it!

> Yes, I agree. He won't stay invincible for long, I'm sure.

Probably until his series 3 appearance.

Torchwood has ripped off a lot of things (e.g. C.S.I.-style city shots) but people are forgetting that they in turn ripped off things before them, it's an ongoing thing. It doesn't matter as much because it's a British show and a lot of these things have only been done on U.S. shows. They've got to start somewhere. Russell KNOWS this, hence the 'CSI: Cardiff' line thrown in with his usual subtlety... They managed to pull a couple of relatively original ideas out their arse for Who so I'm sure it will happen here eventually.

For anyone who doesn't know, the main character in Lost (Jack) was originally meant to be played by a big-name star (Michael Keaton was in the running, but then didn't want to do it) and then killed off after ONE episode to freak people out. The dead pilot at the end of episode 1 was meant to be dead Jack. Kate was then going to be the central character.

> Someone Else's Problem... sorry, Perception Field...

Thank GOD someone else spotted that! I couldn't make my mind up if it really was an HHGG homage, or if RTD was just ripping it off.

> For anyone who doesn't know, the main character in Lost (Jack) was originally meant to be played by a big-name star (Michael Keaton was in the running, but then didn't want to do it) and then killed off after ONE episode to freak people out. The dead pilot at the end of episode 1 was meant to be dead Jack. Kate was then going to be the central character.

Christ, I wish they'd done this.

>> For anyone who doesn't know, the main character in Lost (Jack) was originally meant to be played by a >big-name star (Michael Keaton was in the running, but then didn't want to do it) and then killed off after >ONE episode to freak people out. The dead pilot at the end of episode 1 was meant to be dead Jack. >Kate was then going to be the central character.

>Christ, I wish they'd done this

Don't we all! imagine Lost without Dr. Fathead!