Meh, I grew up with McCoy as my first experience of Who, so I'll always have a soft spot for the title sequence and indeed the logo. Alright, so the wink is quite silly... but that CGI TARDIS in the weird bubble thing is gorgeous...

One thing I do like is the credits. It's very much of its time, but it works for some reason.

I like the music. Sure, it hardly matches the Derbyshire original, but it's nice enough.

Actually, my least favourite version of the music is that used for the Pertwee/Baker years. I know it's ostensiably the same recording, but it's been fucked around with so much that it's lost what made it so wonderful in the first place.

(Oh, and DALEKS COULDN'T CLIMB STAIRS UNTIL RUSSELL T DAVIS MADE IT SO, HE DID, IT'S TRUE.)

Either that's irony, or RTD was a writer long before the new series...

Either that's irony

Where irony is obviously sarcasm, and birds are obviously made of wood.

Oh and Remembrance is great. Proper Dalek battles! And two great bits that I can't mention because they'd spoil it...

Still, it's fucking *rubbish* period detail. And just wait until the Eastenders caff makes an appearance...

And the bloke from Fresh Prince of Bel Air with an exceedingly dodgy Jamaican accent.

And "And now on BBC1..."

I want to sex Sophie Aldred.

See, I always give Remembrence as an example of how a video-look can really *help* a programme.

The (wonderful) action scenes in the serial feel *real*. Shot on film (or stick a film-look effect on it) and do shitloads of editing, and the end result can feel too artificial. With Remembrence, you feel *right* there. And frankly, it's a lot scarier.

I want to sex Sophie Aldred

"Small hu...man fe... male locaaated"

"WHO YOU CALLIN' SMALL?"

The outtake of that on the DVD is BRILLIANT.

One of the best Dalek stories, and ties in fairly well to the new Daleks, I reckon. It's got Tim Diamond off Just Ask For Diamond in it too. And I always piss myself at at least two bits of this, one which I won't mention for being a bit spoilery, and also that time controller thing that's just one of those globe lightning toys. Almopst as funny as the bit in Androzani where the politician is clearly operating his hi tech office with a TV remote, complete with contrast button.

Also, they're my second favourite set of titles, after the new ones.

Ian, you have to see Curse Of Fenric. You have to!

Leave season 24 well alone, mind. Bonnie Langford should be shot with GUNS.

*adds it to the list*

I've got a few recently-purchased Who DVDs to watch: Tomb of the Cybermen, Inferno and Pyramids of Mars. Which should I watch first?

PYRAMIDS.

But they're all great.

> Tomb of the Cybermen

When you watch this see if you can spot the characterisation that Colin Baker would approve of.

The model of the rocket at the beginning of Tomb is the best bit of modelwork I've ever seen in classic Who.

>Daleks climbing stairs

The Colin Baker story Revelation of the Daleks has hovering ones. Davros hovers, and so does the dalek that incubates in the room before it explodes.

I think this pisses all over Revelation and Ressurection of the Daleks. Revelation I have particular hatred for, and I don't care what anyone says to defend it so there. Ressurection is OK and I suppose memorable because another of Davison's companions leaves (of course, you can't beat the one that leaves in Earthshock...) and some actual violence happens in the story.

Oh, and if the McCoy title sequence isn't enough to make you want to end it all then I don't know what is.

I think Revelation works on so many different levels, and at a time when Dr Who was churning out really terrible episodes, is pretty risky and terrifying, as well as deeply surreal. I think the writing is fantastic. It also brings back some credibility and menace to the daleks, which could be developed in Remembrance, after the clunky Destiny (with the worst possible Davros wearing a mask that doesn't fit him) and rather run of the mill Resurrection. What don't you like about Revelation? I'm genuinely asking, not being antagonistic. PS I haven't gone out of my way to sell it to you, but this is largely because you've said you're not interested in hearing anything in its defence. But I'm interested in your attack.

Did anyone catch this version of Colin Baker's music?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/tv/titles/realmedia/drwho6b.ram

Revelation I have particular hatred for, and I don't care what anyone says to defend it so there. Ressurection is OK and I suppose memorable because another of Davison's companions leaves (of course, you can't beat the one that leaves in Earthshock...) and some actual violence happens in the story.

Resurrection is abysmal. Revelation, despite its flaws, is great.

Revelation is fucking wonderful. Clive Swift! Incest jokes! It's got such a wonderful streak of black humour. The only bad thing is the fucking abysmal performance of Jenny Tomasin as Tasambeker. It's bad enough that it's one of the worst performances I've ever seen in Who - but when you're acting against the fucking brilliant Clive Swift and are dragging down such a great story, it's even worse.

Mind you, I can enjoy Ressurection too - it's a load of meaningless nonsense, but it's entertaining meaningless nonsense.

the fucking abysmal performance of Jenny Tomasin as Tasambeker

She's only ever been in a handful of things aside from Who and Upstairs, Downstairs (for which she was most famous). I still to this day can't fathom how somebody saw her in U,D and said "Hey, let's put her in Revelation!"

You also neglected to mention Alexei Sayle and William Gaunt in your list of awesome stuff about that story...

> You also neglected to mention Alexei Sayle and William Gaunt in your list of awesome stuff about that story...

Sorry, Seb, you must be hung over or something, as you've mistakenly stated that Alexei Sayle was in any way good in Revelation. He was SHIT.

I think Alexi is fucking *fantastic* in Revelation. There's no doubt about it - it's an *odd* performance, and so likely to split people right down the middle. But I think he's both hilarious and yet unnerving - exactly what the part required.

The interesting thing about Who is that I have an extremely wide range of tastes in it. Some people seem to love some eras and hate the others; I tend to think each one has its strengths, and can enjoy the different stories for different reasons.

Not The Leisure Hive, though. That's boring tedious shite.

I'm with p-monkey, I just don't get Revelation. It's all a bit weird and silly, and not in a good way like Ghostlight. It tries to shift the focus away from the Doctor but the guest performances that have to hold up the story are woeful, apart from Clive Swift and the Space Don Quixote. And I have to skip through the Alexei Sayle bits (probably not wise to say that round here). Best Fat Colin story = Vengeance On Varos, bar none.

Remembrance is, of course, fantastic. Would be in my top 10 any day of the week ("What about British Rocket Group?" "Bernard's got his own problems")

Jesus, John, you have the wrongest opinions ever.

Sorry, Seb, you must be hung over or something, as you've mistakenly stated that Alexei Sayle was in any way good in Revelation. He was SHIT.

I am hungover, but I am still correct. Alexei CAN DO NO WRONG.

I've been sitting here for the last four hours hoping a proper argument will start.

Bah.

This is abuse - you want room 12A, just along the corridor.

(sorry)

Perhaps I should rewatch Revelation, but certainly the first time I saw it I just wanted to smash things. Alexei Sayle being in it as basically himself immediately fucks things up and takes you out of it. C. Baker does my head in enough as it is. Looking at Androzani you get the feeling that Davison/Peri would have been great for many more episodes.

OK, Clive Swift is good in it, fine. And there is some new danger to the Daleks (but they're still underused, with the voices a piece of fucking shit). peri was also good. look, I'm gonna fucking rewatch it, you wanks, then we'll see.

Well, I like the Doc7 tune, so there :p

> Looking at Androzani you get the feeling that Davison/Peri would have been great for many more episodes.

http://tinyurl.com/yggbt7

I just wish there'd been a full TV season with them. For many, Who ended with C. Baker's 'change, my dear'.

I enjoyed C. Baker as a child. Looking at most of his episodes now though I find him the least convincing of the Doctors, being too brash and aggressive and for absolutely no reason. The way his attitude towards Peri changes post regeneration is horrible, and I wonder why she even wanted to stay with him. McCoy is often cited as "the rubbish Doctor" and indeed it was during his period that Who was axed properly. But he warmed up towards the end, and the writing was just starting to get good again. What was really intriguing was the way everything became increasingly dreamlike and odd. I watched Paradise Towers recently and just loved the way it felt like a dream. That's the atmosphere of that era of Who for me, and Revelation of the Daleks is in the same territory. Thinking now, an attribute of creepy otherworldliness defined television in general during that time, and I always associated it with just being the perspective of my childhood.

"Actually, my least favourite version of the music is that used for the Pertwee/Baker years. I know it's ostensiably the same recording, but it's been fucked around with so much that it's lost what made it so wonderful in the first place."

Even compared to the current version of the theme? Where the same original recording appears merely as a token "John Lennon in Free as a Bird"-style tinniness?

Difficult. I don't mind the current version really - but I agree that it's not the best version ever. It's not because it's only got a tiny bit of the original recording in, though - if the new recording had been as great as the Peter Howell version, it'd be fine...

OTOH, I *really* don't like the Pertwee/Baker version - it just sounds *flat*.

I'm hoping when RTD leaves and they get a new showrunner that they'll want to do a new version of the theme. Something more electronica would suit me fine...

Sorry John, please remind me which version is the Peter Howell one. Is it the early 80s one?

Yep, that's the one. I know some people really hate it, but for me it's the second best version - second only to the very original version.

I love the new theme - or at least, the orchestral one from the closing credits. The middle eight is already one of the most inspiring pieces of music ever, but to hear it done by an orchestra like that... shiver down the spine every time, I can tell you.

But then, I quite like the McGann music... ;-)

I have to say, I do love the orchestral middle eight. It's fantastic.

The bit I don't like is the strings across the main melody. I think they're fussy.

I hope a new version is forthcoming. I'd like the creepiness of the Derbyshire original to be brought out more (or why have it there at all? - the original one for William Hartnell was planned to have orchestra but they realised it would detract from the qualities they wanted to keep). And there's something about the break-neck pace I don't like about the orchestra. It's like Doctor Who is primarily an action programme now, rather than mysterious and thrilling.

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