Yes. Take that EVERYONE who ever said Lost would continue forever without proper resolution. In your collective face. Also:

I have always believed that they do not introduce elements into the show without knowing the payoff and I also believe they have a well crafted (but ultimately flexible) story all set, ready for a satisfying conclusion.

This is so very, very true. Anyone that's watched from series 1 to 3 can see how this it's the case, and especially anyone who's seen The X-Files trying to spin together its many disparate mysteries when clearly there was no pre-planned way for them to do so knows what it would look like if they didn't.

Lost is the greatest thing to happen to television since, er, Battlestar Galactica, but before that the closest you got was Buffy and I dare say Lost ultimately has the edge over that. It's back soon and then my life will have meaning again.

In my own personal defense, at least, I should say that my own arguments against Lost were never that it was going nowhere at all. Just that when it got there, we'd all be vaguely disappointed and unimpressed.

Well, that, and the characters being made from the same cardboard that shops use in shirt collars. :-)

B5...such a shame. It was nearly a proper five-season arc - until fear of cancellation saw them blow their narrative wad in four then drag the few thin threads through five. Nobody's fault, just a damn shame. And yes, in that respect Lost has been very lucky, and this news is indeed good.

Lost has the edge over Buffy? Words fail me...

> ....but before that the closest you got was Buffy and I dare say Lost ultimately has the edge over that.

DEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

> Now, for the first time since Babylon 5, we have the opportunity to witness a beautifully crafted and, more importantly, the opportunity to complete their pre-defined story arc and go about answering all those burning questions about the island, whilst at the same time giving the characters a conclusion they deserve, all without having to worry about being made to create more seasons.

I realise this is exceptionally pedantic but B5 ended up having to tie up most of the arc at the end of S4 only to then be granted a fifth season.

Damn you.

I was checking my facts on B5 thing and you swoop in and make virtually the same points only far more effectively. Bastard.

Yes. Take that EVERYONE who ever said Lost would continue forever without proper resolution.

Luckily I had the sense to only think this, and not say it out loud. (actually my thoughts were probably more along the line of them trying to drag it out, but then the show getting cancelled without the writers being given enough time to show any conclusion.)

But as Andrew says, there's still no guarantee that the explanation about the island and why everyone is there will make any sense.

Now, for the first time since Babylon 5

What about LEXX? The ending for that was pre-planned, too. I'm not sure exactly how far in advance it was planned, but they did make the conscious decision to end it themselves, and thus they were able to give it a proper ending.

Watch this show, everyone. Watch it.

No :P

What about LEXX?

Also, in a roundabout way, Farscape. I seem to remember reading that they had the conclusion to the show planned before they got cancelled (hence the extreme season 4 cliffhangar), and then after getting the funding they had to squeeze the rest of the storyline into the miniseries.

> But as Andrew says, there's still no guarantee that the explanation about the island and why everyone is there will make any sense.

I think the sad thing is that it certainly COULD certainly end up making sense - it just won't be especially satisfying.

I always use the Sixth Sense example. Regardless of what you think of the movie and its director, it's a smartly-done twist, beautifully worked in to the body of the film.

But if you showed someone the first 60 minutes of the film, then sent them away for a week to mull on what the twist might be, I'm convinced they'd figure it out. (As, indeed, did some people while watching it normally.) Because a well-constructed resolution is woven into the fabric of the preceeding acts.

As we work through the third series, Lostpedia and rampant online discussion still haven't come up with anything that 'feels right' as a solution. More clues are to come, sure, but...well, how late can a large clue arrive before it starts to feel tacked-on?

That's why I worry. That and the fact that they've already stated they have no intention of 'explaining the numbers'. What else will be left unclear? And, again, how much will be too much?

Rant rant rant...

In my own personal defense, at least, I should say that my own arguments against Lost were never that it was going nowhere at all. Just that when it got there, we'd all be vaguely disappointed and unimpressed.

Well, you can guess all you like, it's not going to make much of a difference, is it? ;) Personally, I've not seen any evidence to suggest that the writers would blow the ending, and the fact that I've not been disappointed with any of the current answers (what was in the hatch? what does the hatch do? why did the plane crash? how did Desmond get to the island? is Henry an other? etc). I suppose if you didn't like how those answers were dealt with, then it's safe to say you wont like whatever they do to wrap up the show, in the end.

Well, that, and the characters being made from the same cardboard that shops use in shirt collars. :-)

I've never really got this argument, but then we've discussed this more than once, so I guess I'll never understand it! Sure, the characters draw on some established archetypes, but I think they're quite well rounded and interesting. You can pick any of them and claim to be totally unsurprised with their developments, but that's easy to do with anyone and, for me, the real interest is how they interact with each other and how they deal with the weird shit going on on the island. When you have an abnormal situation, it's good to have characterisations that are familiar to the audience, while at the same time giving them extra interesting elements. I think the show does this.

Andrew:

B5...such a shame. It was nearly a proper five-season arc - until fear of cancellation saw them blow their narrative wad in four then drag the few thin threads through five. Nobody's fault, just a damn shame. And yes, in that respect Lost has been very lucky, and this news is indeed good.

Karl:

I realise this is exceptionally pedantic but B5 ended up having to tie up most of the arc at the end of S4 only to then be granted a fifth season.

Ah, yes, I did know this and it does certainly show. However, I can still sit back and say that was the most coherent 5 seasons of anything I've ever seen. The fact that almost everything was splurged in season 4 actually makes that season one of the best thing of anything ever, and season 5 was still brilliant. In fact, it's slower, less eventful feeling actually served the show well, giving you a very real sense of everything winding down. Which, of course, it was. You could argue that B5 would've been better if they weren't messed around over the fifth season, but as it stands I'm incredibly happy with how B5 turned out and wouldn't wish it to be any different.

I think the sad thing is that it certainly COULD certainly end up making sense - it just won't be especially satisfying.

More of that guessing, then? :P

It's an interesting point you make about The Sixith Sense, though. I've never really thought of that. I suppose it's a little based on assumption, though, and I honestly don't think that a prerequisite of a good, well planned mystery is that I should've worked it out by now. It seems to miss the point, somewhat. Like I said before, mysteries have been solved in the past, none of which I've guessed and all of which felt well planned and satisfying, to me.

> The fact that almost everything was splurged in season 4 actually makes that season one of the best thing of anything ever

With this I agree.

> it's good to have characterisations that are familiar to the audience, while at the same time giving them extra interesting elements. I think the show does this.

With this I don't. Inevitably. :-)

> More of that guessing, then? :P

Well, as you say, it's a guess - but only to the same level as guessing it WILL work!

If you've not been disappointed by the revelations so far (HAS anything actually been explained yet? Expanded, yes, but not concluded), fair enough. For me, the string of backstory coincidences is really, really, REALLY awful.

And if that turns out to be just that, coincidence, then it's genuinely piss-poor writing of the worst kind. If it's all gonna make sense, that's great. But my EDUCATED guess - for it is, at least, that - is that the very structure of the show can't possibly go anywhere satisfying by the end.

Finding a beard, or the history of a guy in a hatch, isn't an explation of anything useful, it just widens the mystery. I don't recall having a moment of revelation that just didn't add more questions. Which may suggest that ANY answer will do the same. Including the 'conclusion' - if we're left still going 'Huh, what about...?' then, well, that's not living up to the promise. It'd leave me unsatisfied and frustrated.

> I honestly don't think that a prerequisite of a good, well planned mystery is that I should've worked it out by now

I'm not saying that, so much as that a good, well planned mystery should house its resolution in its body. Otherwise you might as well say "And it's all a dream" and have done with it.

It's not that EVERYONE should be able to work it out. It's that the odd one should be getting there by now, if all the details have been seeded properly in line with good storytelling. Nothing in the big conclusion should come out of left-field. It's 'cheating'.

Neither you nor I know if enough is going to be tied neatly up by the end. My guess is it won't, based on my own reading of the show (and my take on a fanbase that amounts to gazillions of hours of processing tme to figure things out)); yours is that it will, for much the same reasons. We're both only guessing - of course, it's all we can do!

And in a few more years, at least one of us will end up looking pretty stupid... If it's me, that's fine, I'm used to it. :-)

Sorry, I know - I'm just driving this round in cicrles. I'll shut up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6633863.stm

Another three seasons, then.

> Another three seasons, then.

Well, kind of. Seems like a compromise, to me. The producers obviously wanted two seasons, ABC wanted three, so they've just spread the former out to the latter. I'm happy, anyway.

It should end like Lord of the Flies. A close-up of strangely untarnished shoes with a pull back revealing an army bloke going "alright?" and a few helicopters behind him, and the people on the island going "cool that's that then".

There was an interesting idea put forward on one of the season 2 documentaries. The idea was the last episode should end with helicopters and boats arriving on the beach and finding Vincent, sat there, with everyone dead or buried behind him. That would be awesome.

> There was an interesting idea put forward on one of the season 2 documentaries. The idea was the last episode should end with helicopters and boats arriving on the beach and finding Vincent, sat there, with everyone dead or buried behind him. That would be awesome.

That was a joke I thought.

> That was a joke I thought.

I know full well it'll never happen, it's just a cool idea. I think it was the dog's owner who came up with it.

I don't follow Lost, but didn't you say you were reading The Third Policeman, Capps, because someone had hinted it might hold a key to the show? Did you discover anything?

SPOILERSO:

> I don't follow Lost, but didn't you say you were reading The Third Policeman, Capps, because someone had hinted it might hold a key to the show? Did you discover anything?

I read it last summer after it was seen being read by a NEW MYSTERIOUS CHARACTER at the start of season 2. I thought it was one of the best books I'd ever read and it had a few Lost related things to chew on. The whole idea of being stuck in hell/purgatory was one of the bigger fan theories and that ties the book the show together nicely, but also the idea of there being an underground area with mysterious machinery was a very big connection as at the time, the 'Losties' had just discovered such a thing. All the same, they were only really cosmetic influences and similarities.

But then, a few weeks ago, one of the Island's original inhabitants started talking a box that can bring you whatever you desire. You just have to imagine it which is a pretty huge parallel with Omnium. What's more, it's hinted that some of the island healing benefits can only be taken advantage of on the island (another thematic parallel to Omnium only existing in a certain place.

That's pretty garbled, but it's hard to explain without you seeing Lost, really. You should watch Lost, Phil. It has loads of references like this to chew on (both taken from literature and philosophy).

>You should watch Lost, Phil. It has loads of references like this to chew on (both taken from literature and philosophy).

There is one thing holding me back: the hundreds of hours of catching up I'll have to do. It may be worth it, it might not be...but before we even get far enough along to make that judgment, Jesus Christ, that's a mountain of TV to sit through. Its runtime probably totals the amount of TV I watch in a whole year.

Incidentally, I may have just decided on next month's Booktext...

All of Lost is probably about as much TV as I watch in a fortnight, I reckon. I fucking bum TV.

> You should watch Lost, Phil. It has loads of references like this to chew on (both taken from literature and philosophy).

You shouldn't watch Lost, Phil. It has loads of pretentions like this to infuriate you (both taken from the internet and the Big Boys Book of Existentialism).

(I'm ONLY JOKING - before anyone throws a chair this way.)

*flings a chair*