You've summed it up nicely there, John.

Next they'll be having trails in the corner of a show before it's even finished, with audio so it drowns out the crucial ending of the programme you've been watching for the past hour.

Nah, the next step is: "Cast and crew credits available from bbc.co.uk/credits."

I expect this to get worse in the download age - show credits on screen as the final (flash) frames, to be paused if required.

It stinks, frankly...but at the same time I have to confess that I can't think of a single time I've met a 'regular viewer' who also watches the credits. It tends to be for the fascinated, the fans and industry bods. A few thousand in every million.

Which is not to say I approve. Not everyone uses their home encyclopedia, but you keep it around for when you DO need it. Plus, one of the ways a production 'deals' with companies crew, when money is tight, is to offer a credit. So, in the end, this stuff is going to make financing shows just that tiny bit harder. IMDb or not.

Is American TV style the best next step? Instead of writer, producer and director do we name all Heads of Department over the first act of the show? Maybe. It's not ALWAYS intrusive...though it doesn't help the poor sods on the second tier. Or anyone picking up the drama from a last-episode cliffhanger.

Also: an end to end-credits jokes on sitcoms? Bloody harsh. If the aim is to avoid peeople switching over, an extra scene does the job far better than 'coming up next' voicover bollocks.

Also: the thing with end credits is that they give a programme a bit of *space*. Just worked up to a stunning climax? Then let the viewer who's just invested 30 minutes - or even an hour - watching the programme to relax and reflect a bit, not send them hurtling into the junction. It's horribly jarring, and destroys the mood the programme has built up, rather than letting it gently dissipate.

Indeed.

"Oh dear, Tara won't be recovering from that any time soon. And if you're interested in sudden, unexpected death, don't forget to tune in to Massive Massacre on BBC3 tomorrow night at nine."

I am reminded for some reason of Mr. Show, a sketch comedy show here in the states...Bob Odenkirk and David Cross were the two writers and principal performers on the show and, in keeping with one of the sketches that night, they wanted to have Bob's name visibly (and sloppily) crossed out of the credits...it was a Python-esque sort of gag...certainly something they did far more often than Mr. Show...

And there was some authority that prevented them from doing it. I forget which...I'd need to watch the commentary again. But the show was sent back to them saying that they had to leave the credits unaltered, because it was unfair to the writer who was crossed out, even if it was a joke.

Odenkirk wrote back to them and made clear that HE was the writer who was crossed out and that he was just fine with it.

But they still wouldn't let him do it. There was some legal thing that prevented them from using the credits as an outlet for jokes.

Which is supremely ironic, as just about every American show now (and most movies shown on television) have their credits run in about 1/5 of the screen while the remaining 4/5 is taken up with some huge advertisement for whatever the network feels like pimping.

So the rule is that you can't slip a joke into your credits-sequence because it's unfair to the people who worked on it, but the network is perfectly allowed to make the ENTIRE credits sequence illegible?

This country!

>Also: the thing with end credits is that they give a programme a bit of *space*. Just worked up to a stunning climax? Then let the viewer who's just invested 30 minutes - or even an hour - watching the programme to relax and reflect a bit, not send them hurtling into the junction. It's horribly jarring, and destroys the mood the programme has built up, rather than letting it gently dissipate.

I reckon there's a Sociology PHd to be written about the social effects of such presentation, man.

We were watching an episode of Blackadder Goes Forth last night. I suppose those brilliant end titles (which feature a "J Hoare", incidentally!) wouldn't be allowed these days, as they don't make it clear enough (unless you know anything about TV) what each person's role is...

> And if you're interested in sudden, unexpected death, don't forget to tune in to Massive Massacre on BBC3 tomorrow night at nine."

Surely you mean 'F**k Off, I'm Dead'.

Now online.

Hooray for Charlie Brooker!

Hooray!

Well, thank Christ for that. I wonder if that'll mean the detrimental effects on Doctor Who's end credits will be reversed, too?

I have a horrible feeling that whilst the quarter-size credits will be gone, they'll still keep the shorter credit running times. Which still means nasty, ugly, speeded-up credtis that don't give you enough chance to relax out of a programme.

I bet they use this as an excuse to have more in-programme pop-ups. They've even got the evidence to justify making them more legibleprominent.

That'll be me hitting send too early, there.