It'd be more bearable if it weren't for the fact that they were the group I least wanted representing us.

I know it's mainly pointless and slightly overblown, but if you fancy complaining:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/contactus/form.shtml

I may get shot at here - but I actually don't mind this, really, as long as it just happens once this series. If it keeps happening (as with TMWRNJ Series 2), then it'd annoy me - but once is fine.

I get *more* bothered with them fucking around with the time, as I nearly miss it sometimes...

The problem I have with this is that it takes away the one last broadcasting consistency the show had, and that is it's unbroken 13 weeks run on Saturday nights. It's just a really shitty way of treating the show.

I'd much prefer an earlier start, as it's almost at a pioint where people expect ti to be on at some point between 6:30 and 7:00, which is a whole lot better than sitting down to find it's been cancelled for no real reason.

> If it keeps happening (as with TMWRNJ Series 2), then it'd annoy me - but once is fine.

This is another thing that concerns me. Doing this is setting a precident. If they get away with it, ratings wise, you can bet it'll happen more in the future, as they think they can shunt around to their hearts content without even a second thought to how it's totally fucks up loads of other outside elements such as tie in mags, and magazine shows.

I suppose part of the reason I don't mind is that at least it's for a good reason - Eurovision is a live show, and short of sticking it on BBC TWO, there's not much they can do. (And Eurovision *really* isn't a BBC TWO-style show. It's the kind of nonsense light entertainment that BBC ONE *should* be doing, and there really isn't enough of it these days.)

But I suppose I can understand that in combination with the timeslot changes, it might be a bit tiresome. I just get more annoyed about nearly missing a show, than I do about it not being on for a week. I *very* nearly missed the first fifteen minutes of Evolution...

I suppose part of the reason I don't mind is that at least it's for a good reason - Eurovision is a live show, and short of sticking it on BBC TWO, there's not much they can do. (And Eurovision *really* isn't a BBC TWO-style show. It's the kind of nonsense light entertainment that BBC ONE *should* be doing, and there really isn't enough of it these days.)

Oh, don't get me wrong, I realise how important Eurovision is and I wouldn't want it moved for any reason. It's just that their excuse of "we don't want to show Who too early" is completely invalid due to the fact that Who and Eurovision have cohabited happily for thelast two years, and they've hardly been shy of early starts this year, either. They're just contradicting themselves, and it's really frustrating, as there's obviously more to it. We're just not being told.

When is Eurovision actually starting, anyway? 7:00pm?

I still think their best bet - at least, for me - would be to have a *rigid* start for Who of 7:00pm. If that means postponing one of the programmes each series, then so be it. I just can't stand changing start times for a show. It's the lesser of two evils, I think.

I think you're right though - the fact that they're doing *both* this series is irritating.

When is Eurovision actually starting, anyway? 7:00pm?

8:00. Doctor Who was originally scheduled for 6:40.

I do take your point, John, and I think I would be happy with a rigit 7:00 start with some room for 1 postponement. But I think if they did do that we'd get closer to 3 or 4. Then again, that's what's called a "guess", but it's my gut feeling. They just basically haven't got a clue what to do with Who now it's surrounded by live shows.

8:00? GAH... that is *really* annoying. Maybe their audience figures indicate that people are missing the show if it starts too early, but... yeah. Annoying. They should have moved something else.

They just basically haven't got a clue what to do with Who now it's surrounded by live shows.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think the only way round it would be if they scheduled less live stuff around Who frankly. But I suppose they're trying to build up exciting Saturday night telly, and to be fair, I am *really* pleased that live shows are done as part of that.

Time for my favourite quote ever; "I wanted to be a programme planner, but unfortunately I've got a degree".

I don't really understand - if Eurovision starts at 8, then why doesn't Who fit at 7, or even 7.15?

Is it because of fucking Joseph? Are the BBC once again giving priority to the show that gets a few million LESS viewers?

Yeah... it's the fact that Eurovision is on at 8 which makes it stupid. If it had been at 7, then fair enough - but at 8, they should have cancelled something else.

The thing is, they can't cancel a live show and I wouldn't expect them too. It's just that they've put themselves in this stupid position where Who is the only viable option for moving around. It's really, really silly.

But, again, what REALLY gets me is that it was originally scheduled to be shown at 6:40 (which would mean it could fit around everything wothout a problem)! It's just they've suddenly decided that it's unacceptable to show that early, after doing it fucking loads of times in the past.

I still wonder whether they've had viewing figures drop when it's been shown at that time, or something. Still, it's all the worst possible situation - currently, they're both fucking around with the time, *and* postponing the show...

Seriously, why can't they postpone a live show? Given that all it involves is some namby pambies prancing around trying to be the next Philip Schofield. So they get an extra week to rehearse songs or worse, a week off to see there families. Unless I'm missing something?

As said before they've happily co-existed before and tbh I quite like having Who earlier in the saturday schedule, it takes it back to it's origins and you get to watch some quality TV and have time to get ready to bugger off out for some saturday night fever, if that be your thing.

I can't see why they couldn't postpone a live show. Unless they'd already booked the studio and crew, and forgotten about Eurovision - which is more than possible. I suppose it's just *easier* to postpone something that's prerecorded. I always think that the show that suffers should be the one that is directly displaced - in this case Any Dream Will Do, as doing it that way should annoy less people. (If Eurovision had been on at 7, I wouldn't have minded Who going at all.)

I haven't seen any of Any Dream, actually, which is annoying. If it's anything like as well-produced as Strictly Come Dancing - and the BBC are *really* good at producing these kind of shows - I'd probably enjoy it...

> I suppose it's just *easier* to postpone something that's prerecorded.

Of course. Postponing 'Joseph' would be sort of like delaying a week of shooting for Who series 3 when it was in production. It just can't be done without money being lost and everything going to cock - in 'Joseph's case they'll only have the studio for so many weeks and they can't be delayed because they're on a tight schedule to get the actual Technicolor Dreamcoat show together and opening whenever it opens (but of course they can't just choose the Joseph in like two episodes or something, which they bloody COULD because, no matter what, they fucking know who they want to play it just like they did with 'Maria')

You could easily have postponed it with a bit of planning. The date of Eurovision has been known for ages, and most people at the BBC are freelance now. Just don't book crew and studio space for one week. If it had all been sorted out at the beginning of the production, and scheduled accordingly, then it would have been fine.

> I'd much prefer an earlier start, as it's almost at a pioint where people expect ti to be on at some point between 6:30 and 7:00, which is a whole lot better than sitting down to find it's been cancelled for no real reason.

Not so - go look at the OG ratings threads for the past two weeks They ask not to post the raw stats, elsewhere, but based on those stats

Average of DiM between 18:35 and 19:20 - 6.27m
Average of DiM between 19:00 and 19:20 - 6.84m, with a big bump just before 7

Average of EotD between 18:45 and 19:25 - 6.51m
Average of EotD between 19:00 and 19:25 - 6.91m, with three-quarters of a million people turning on between 6:50 and 7

And, as I recall, the original schedule went:

(up to 17:20) - Football results
17:20 - News
17:40 - Norton wants a Joseph (1)
18:40 - Doctor Who
19:25 - Norton wants a Joseph (2)
19:50 - Lottery Draws
20:00 - Eurovision